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Puerto Argentino/Stanley white fence wall.

Posted by Ian Bruce on 27 Nov 2021, 09:46

Strategically, I believe the war was fought with a long-range goal in mind. The UK has the only two reliably ice-free ports - on South Georgia and at Port Stanley - in the region. Both are in striking distance of Antarctica, the last great, untapped source of raw materials left in the world. That makes them very valuable indeed for future exploitation of minerals. There was also the question of sovereignty. There has been a British population on the Falklands since before Argentina even existed as a state. At the time of the conflict, there was only one Argentinian citizen on the islands. He ran the local airline office.
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Posted by Bluefalchion on 27 Nov 2021, 10:41

And the military junta running Argentina wanted to distract the population from its dirty war and the terrible economic situation. It worked…for a very short time.
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Posted by Beano Boy on 27 Nov 2021, 10:59

Sorry to all concerning my last post It should have read May.A slip of my finger. BB
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Posted by Harry Faversham on 27 Nov 2021, 11:09

Ian Bruce wrote:I was there, attached to Four-Five Commando, Royal Marines, for the recapture of the islands. I can assure you there were still quite a few members of the Buzo Tactico around when we entered Port Stanley. In addition, all of the RM personnel defending Stanley when the Argentine invasion force landed, were repatriated via Chile and volunteered to a man to return with the task force under the command of Major Mike Norman. They became a sub-unit of Four-Two Commando and were given the honour of lowering the Argentine flag at government house and re-raising the Union flag. I can also assure you that the Argentine special forces who captured Stanley were not trying to avoid British casualties. When we advanced down Moody Brook Valley on the outskirts of the islands' capital, the former RM barracks were riddled with fire. And at government house, the defenders took a lot of incoming rifle and machine-gun fire. As a final observation, the task force was not "English". It was British. I'm a Scot and there were a lot of my countrymen there with both Marines and Paras and a battalion of the Scots Guards, as well as many Welsh soldiers - the Welsh Guards - and Northern Irish members of various units. We are not "English".


Ian... don't forget the Gurkhas!

;-)
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Harry Faversham  England
 
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Posted by Ian Bruce on 27 Nov 2021, 13:56

Harry, I take your point re the Gurkhas. Contrary to some reports I've seen, they never actually got into action. They deployed to flank Mount Tumbledown after the Scots Guards fought an all-night battle to take the heights and were running short of ammunition. But as they came on line and advanced, the Argentine resistance finally broke and the survivors legged it back towards Stanley, leaving our Nepalese friends somewhat disappointed. We watched the Argentine troops streaming off the back of the mountain and its ridges from afar.
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Posted by Santi Pérez on 27 Nov 2021, 23:23

Another amazing diorama from you, Carlos. And once more it comes from a very original idea with a fantastic result. Thank you also for the interesting History class. ;-)

Santi.
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Santi Pérez  Spain
 
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Posted by Carlos on 28 Nov 2021, 00:15

Thanks by te coments Santi!

Ian, I want to apologize for using "English" for the British. It is a common mistake of Argentina and I think that for all Latin America to call all the English Brits. My mistake, I apologize for that.
In Argentina we love the Scots, Irish and Welsh a lot, since we had a great immigration of them here. In Patagonia there is a province that is entirely Welsh. Irish and Scottish are everywhere, one of my best friends from high school was named "McDonald" and in his family they did not speak a word of English but they kept the "Gaelic" (my friend's older brother was also a Malvinas/Falklands veteran, It is interesting that there was Scottish ancestry on both sides of the lines, as I recall, he was in two sisters, with the 4th infantry), so please do not be offended.
As I said before, I am not an expert on the Falklands, and this is my first diorama about the war. I doesn't like that war. It happens that I am from the northeast of Argentina and when the war I was 16, most of the soldiers who went there were 18 or 19 so I met many, we had many veterans (only in my town 15, we have too many, and it is a small town), It happens that when we have to go to the conscription, except in the case that you got the "number" for the navy or air force, or that they selected us for the special forces (which was my case and was sent with the bush hunters in the Jungle brigade, or precisely the case of my friend Macdonald who told you before he was sent with the paratroopers to the brigade in Cordoba, very far from home) the boys from my area served in the nearest unit, and in mo provincie there where teh "Correntino Regiments" (regiments that remained in Corrientes province, in the times of conscription teher where four or five) and all Corrientes regiments were sent to the Falklands. When the veterans came back, to my town, they said "Galtieri and Tatcher wanted to have sex, they needed condoms and there we were", this was the way the boys from Argentina, from my region (I can't speak for others from other regions) thought, so I developed a frank aversion to that war.
Later in university I met other veterans, they were not satisfied with having fought that war. The Argentine soldiers were not professionals, they fought "for the country", and it turns out that this was not true, they did not fight for the country, they fought for the political ambition of a drunken dictator called Galtieri and they felt betrayed.
So after listening to the veterans I have no sympathy for that war. I don't know much about Malvinas / Falklands, I only found those figures, they seemed good to me and I was inspired by some photos that I downloaded from the internet. I don't know if they are "strictly historical", I just wanted to use those figures.
Now Im waiting a kit of WWI from the same manufacturer, but I know a little more about that war.
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Posted by Bluefalchion on 28 Nov 2021, 02:20

I was just 10 when the conflict turned hot. My recollection was that it was a surprise to nearly everyone that it did so.

I had a board game from Avalon Hill based on the conflict that came out a year or two later, which is how I learned that the Argentine name for the islands are Malvinas.

I traveled to Cordoba in 1993, but the war was never mentioned during my brief stay. The country was then more focused on its national side. Bautistuta was starting then, as I recall. I hope we can all agree that football is a healthier path to national glory as opposed to war.
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Posted by Wiking on 28 Nov 2021, 07:06

A great Dio with a simple but very good idea.
And the timeframe incuding the weather too.
Top done again as all your work.

And an interesting conversation.
Some details are new to me.

Thankfully you give us the link for the figures.
The matchbox one are the only usable in plastic. And one good set in metal was made.
Now it is possible to do some Argentine
Soldiers.

Carlos :yeah:
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Posted by Carlos on 28 Nov 2021, 16:40

Blue Fashion. Yes, everything is football here. People do not remember much of the war, but everyone can tell you what happened in each world cup, we are not warriors, we are sport people and here football is a passion.
We really like basketball too and we always watch the NBA ((my son is a terrible fan of Lebron James, as I was of Michael Jordan), and Rugby is the other passion.
Here a footbal match with Brazil (our historical rivals) paralyzes the country and attracts more attention than a war. We can forgive our armed forces for losing a war, but we will never forgive a team for losing a World Cup. I know Batistuta, his family emigrated to Argentina in the same boat as mine from the same region of Italy (It's called Friul) we live in the same region of Argentina. Good people the Batistuta family and Gabriel is an honest and humble guy.
What we learned from Malvinas is that war is not our thing, we can be brave, but we do not like war. Sports are ours, and a playing field is our battlefield. We are not very happy lately, our team has not brought a World Cup for a long time. We always finish second!. Germans always spoil the party for us.


Wiking.
The manufacturer has almost the entire Falklands line, including some heavy weapons (Otto Melara cannons, Rehinmetall antiaircraft, Psado Mortars, etc), but the figures need a good primer because the printer's microlines are noticeable in the 1/72 scale. The Weapons are very good, the detail level of the FAL (they even have figures with FAL PARA) and the MAG is incredible. The truth is that I do not know if he sells outside the country but I think you can write to him to ask him. Since 3D appeared many things are appearing, now there is also a manufacturer that makes the LVTP-7 that the "Lizards" used in the Rosario operation (the name given to the battalions of the marine infantry specialized in assault on beaches was "Lagartos", "lizards." The Marines in general called them "bichos verdes" "green bugs", in that At that time, all the special forces had nicknames, the paras were "cardinals" and those of the jungle were "Black Knees"). A lot of good things for modeling are popping up on the scale today.
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Posted by Ian Bruce on 28 Nov 2021, 17:25

No offence taken, my friend. As you say, it's a common misconception. We were told that one of your provinces was populated by people of Welsh descent, who still spoke the ancient Welsh language. I was not aware of so many Scots and irish settlers in Argentina. Some of your regular Marines and Army units fought with courage and determination. The conscripts'hearts were not in the fight. And they were faced with the most professional and experienced troops Britain had to offer - the Royal Marines, Paras and Guards. Your air force was also courageous, if guilty of a lot of "death or glory" flying. I spoke with a caoptured pilot, Teniente Ricardo Lucero, after his Skyhawk was shot down. He told me his entire squadron was gone. And that the authorities lied to him and his comrades, telling them the missing pilots had been deployed to other airfields. Most of them were dead by then. I can also tell you that the night the cruiser Belgrano was torpedoed and sunk, there was no celebration on our troopship. When a radio operator came into the officers' mess to tell us it had happened, the place became very quiet. There was just sympathy for those who were now in the icy water and sorrow that so many had to die.
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Posted by despertaferro on 29 Nov 2021, 00:11

I like this post ...

For Carlos' original, well dessigned and produced diorama, but also for all the information that has come out ...

I have seen the 3D figures in the link provided by Carlos and they seem extraordinary, at Speira's quality level to my eyes...
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Posted by Carlos on 29 Nov 2021, 01:49

Ian
Dictator Galtieri's lies was for an entire people. But it was harder for the military who fought the war, to discover this traition, it would bring uprisings and subsequent military protests in Argentina, which were the "face painted protests", but that's another story.
What happened was that when Margaret Tatcher decided not to play the game. Argentina was supposed to give the islands to the UN and the UN gave them back to Gram-Britain, Tatchter recovered the islands in a few months and recovered them without firing a shot, Galtieri gets more time with the public opinion of Argentina away from economic problems (and the football world cup gave him even more time) It was the plan of the United States to sustain its ally Galtieri, but Tatcher decided to play his own game. It is known in Argentina that Galtieri " fight backwards" or "figth to loose" (one of the reasons why I did not send the best troops).
The drunk Galtieri had two options, fight to win, which meant sending the best troops and accepting the air / sea missiles, and all the satellite help and technology that the Soviets offered him for the war and then enter the "orbit of the Soviets" (something inadmissible for a conservative and right-wing Argentine military) or "fight to lose", a kind of war simulation, change governernement but leaving the country within the anticommunists' club, he chose the latter but did not say anything to the low-ranking military (colonels, pilots, etc.) and pilots that made the military angry.
Either way and paradoxically, for my country losing the war was good, because thanks to that we recovered our democracy. But that was the second half of the 20th century and most of the wars of that time were always more related to geopolitics than anything else.



Despertaferro.
Thanks for your comment. I liked the idea of ​​making the diorama on two sides because of the symbolism of that war, the coming and going of a war. Either way it's not a topic that I handle a lot. I never studied much about the FalKnads / Malvinas, everything that comes from veteran stories. Anyway, I bought the complete collection of figures so maybe I will make some more dioramas about the islands, so I will have to study a little.
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Posted by despertaferro on 30 Nov 2021, 13:02

I've been in Argentina several times, not only Buenos Aires were I've worked for months, but also in all the Northwest of the country and all the south from San Carlos de Bariloche to Ushuaia and beyond. And of all the Argentinians I did met you are the one with the most raisonable and well argued opinions about the Facklands/Malvinas affaire. I'm old enough to remember the wartime period and, even Argentinians that were living in my town that had to leave the country because the dictatorship prosecution, suddenly turned into pro-war fanatics. I read on a book that I bougt in El Calafate that during the XIXth and first quarter of XXth centuries anyone could had ocupied the entire Patagonia without the central governement even noticing. The disregard of the Buenos Aires central governement about the southern provinces was tremendous. The actual city of Ushuaia was build as a penal colony because it was considered far and isolated enough for no one trying to espape could survive the harsh environement.
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