Questions

War of Spanish Succession Walloon Regiments

Posted by Flambeau on 30 Mar 2021, 11:11

To add some colour to my WoSS armies I decided to paint one unit as a Walloon regiment in Dutch/Imperial service. Several sources say they had a green uniform with red cuffs (Grant, Armies and uniforms of Marlborough's wars, vol. 1, p.20). Knötel has a picture of the Austrian Los Rios infantry (Uniformenkunde vol X, no 45, the text stated that the Dutch [Walloon] infantry kept the green uniform till 1725). Now here's the catch: The Kronoskaf 7YW page says about the Los Rios infantry that "This Walloon regiment first served in the Dutch service, taking part in the battles of Oudenarde (1708) and Malplaquet (1709 )." So far so good. It's only that none of the orders of battle at my disposal show this regiment for any of these battles. Did it participate under another name (Commanders name?)? Does
anyone know more on this subject?
Flambeau  Germany
 
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22 Oct 2020, 16:29


Posted by Flambeau on 06 Apr 2021, 14:46

As nobody has come up with an answer and I don't like unsolved mysteries, I've done some research of my own.

For anybody interested, there's a good website here http://www.spanishsuccession.nl/ with detailed information. I take the following account from their site (http://www.spanishsuccession.nl/armies_ ... antry.html) with some rearrangement of the content for chronological reasons and omitting the footnotes:

"In early October 1701 the Amenzaga tercio left Oostende for Brussel. On sunday 9th it was revued there by Prince Tserclaes. On 22 October 1701 the Amenzaga Tercio was to leave Brussel for Upper Gelre, but was later destined to Gent, where it had arrived on 2 November 1701. The Amezaga regiment was in Gent in April 1702 its colonel was Juan Antonio Hurtado de Amezaga. During the August 1702 attacks in States Flanders the Amenzaga suffered heavy losses. On 17 June 1703 the Amezaga was destined for Bedmar's army. On 30 June 1703 the Amezaga regiment fought in the battle of Ekeren. On 4 August 1703 it received orders to leave its camp at Duren and to join the main army101d. On 3 november 1703 the Amenzaga was stated to have arrived in Gent.
The Los Rios regiment then appears in a 12 May 1705 order of battle. In the Battle for the Brabant lines the Los Rios was part of the Zuñiga brigade that defended the part that the alliance attacked. In this battle these officers of the Los Rios were taken prisoner: Captain Aranda; Lieutenant d'Aquilera and ensign Mena. From 5th June 1706 there is a note in the Oprechte Haerlemsche Courant [https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?coll=ddd&identifier=ddd:011105816:mpeg21:p002] that on 2 June 1706 the 'Los Rios, previously Amenzaga, that defended the citadel of Gent surrendered to the alliance and was made prisoners of war'. It was then stated to count 400 men. In a letter to the States General the Duke of Marlborough stated: 'The Spanish battalion consisting of 400 men, with the colonel, the Marquis de Los Rios, and all the officers being made prisoners of war, but all the soldiers, except 50, declar'd for King Charles.
I did find that on 1 February 1707 a 'Spanish' Los Rios regiment passed to French pay and in 1710 it took the name 'Las Sierras' and in 1711 the name Leon. In another source we find that the regiment 'Galicia' was conducted to Spain under the command of 'Sierra' in 1715 and that he was its twenty-sixth colonel. It continues with stating that he was succeeded by Don Juan de Leon and Don Pedro de Castro and that in 1715 it got the name Galicia. It's thus established that the Los Rios regiment later became the Galicia regiment, and we only have to know which of the Spanish regiments later became the Galicia. According to Juan L. Sanchez the Galicia regiment was commanded by Amezaga in 1702."

So it seems as if the Los Rios regiment may have split after being taken prisoner at Gent in 1706 with part of the soldiers entering Allied service and was later merged with Bournonville and continued as 'Los Rios' in Imperial service, while another part - perhaps under the original commander - continued to serve on the Franco-Spanish side.

There's a plate depicting the uniforms of the Tercios and Regiments located in Flanders that I found on http://www.oocities.org/ao1617/weapon.html sometime ago. The plate shows the "Tercio de Amezaga" with grey-white uniforms and red cuffs, which conforms with the uniform of the regiment up to 1744 (http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php? ... s_Infantry.)
So sadly, probably no green uniform here.
Flambeau  Germany
 
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Posted by Bluefalchion on 06 Apr 2021, 17:33

Can you create a "what if" regiment that did wear green?
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Bluefalchion  United States of America
 
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Posted by sansovino on 06 Apr 2021, 17:38

Sorry, I didn´t recognised your demand. I am not a specialist of Walloon Regiments, but I can recommend you:
https://www.baccus6mm.com/includes/prod ... xt.inc.php
https://www.baccus6mm.com/PaintingGuides/WSS/
sansovino  Germany
 
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27 Mar 2014, 21:42

Posted by Flambeau on 06 Apr 2021, 19:08

#Bluefalchion
I might do just that if I want to set up a fictional battle. But I guess I won't use them as Walloon but rather as Spanish (Tercio de Valladolid/Verdes Viejos) as these definitely had green uniforms.

#sansovino
thanks for the link. Do you have any of the Robert Hall CD's? How good are they?
Flambeau  Germany
 
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22 Oct 2020, 16:29

Posted by sansovino on 06 Apr 2021, 19:24

Flambeau wrote:#Bluefalchion
I might do just that if I want to set up a fictional battle. But I guess I won't use them as Walloon but rather as Spanish (Tercio de Valladolid/Verdes Viejos) as these definitely had green uniforms.

#sansovino
thanks for the link. Do you have any of the Robert Hall CD's? How good are they?


I have only the cd-book to french cavalry and it´s quite good: simple uniform-plates like the free downloads, but very precise and researched to the colors of the different regiments. And around one third are uniforms before WSS. I don´t know how are the books to the dutch and austrians.
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Posted by pipers on 06 Apr 2021, 19:36

pipers  Spain
 
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Posted by Minuteman on 06 Apr 2021, 19:40

Dear Flambeau,

I spotted your post some days ago and had a mind to looking into the history of the Regiment 'Los Rios', but other tasks took over. It looks as if you have managed to research the unit quite well.

There is an interesting issue here in relation to European military uniforms in the 18th century, which is...why was green not adopted as a more common colour?? The only nation that had substantial numbers of troops clothed in green was Russia, throughout the 18th century and into the 19th. Other countries tended to avoid the colour other than for very specific units eg: British riflemen in the Napoleonic era.

I am not an historian of clothing and cloth-technology. but I believe that one reason might have been the poor durability of green dyes. I suspect that in any sunlight these would fade quite quickly, and might therefore fade to a grey tone or a brown/khaki tone. This may have been the reason why the colour was so little used?

Certainly, other than a few French dragoon units, I am unaware of the main combatant nations in the WoSS using the colour much at all...it is all grey, white/grey, dark red, dark indigo blue or (sometimes) light/pale blue.

Still colourful though!!

Just a final thought: because we know that not all units have known uniforms (or flags) for the early 18th century, I think it is entirely justifiable to use 'artistic licence' to paint just a few units in the colour you would like...it is, after all, your army. So, why not have a green coated Walloon unit; no-one can say categorically that such a unit did not exist in, say, 1708/09, wearing coats of green....even if the green had faded to a muddy brown under the 'strong sunlight' (??!!) of Flanders...
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Minuteman  United Kingdom
 
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06 Mar 2020, 21:38

Posted by Flambeau on 06 Apr 2021, 20:15

#Minuteman
I agree in principle to your final thought. It's just that I don't want to start a too big collection of figures for this period, despite all those nice new sets from Strelets (shelves are already very much filled) and so would like to concentrate on a few choice regiments for each side, preferably those that actually took part in all or most of the important battles. Otherwise you're right, information on uniforms for this period is far more uncertain than for the Seven Years War or the Napoleonic period.
When it comes down to colours a Spanish army would probably be a great choice (see here: http://www.oocities.org/ao1617/weapon.html).
Flambeau  Germany
 
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